In this week's episode, Liz discusses and opines House of the Dragon Episode 3x06 titled "Faceless Men." In an episode where a notable character dies and the cyvasse pieces move on the board once again, will we finally get a battle next episode or will the writing team let us down? There were some highs and lows in this episode. As always check out the website to find out how you can share your thoughts about the tv show and this podcast episode. Sign up to the newsletter!
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00:50 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Greetings fellow accolades, welcome to another episode of the Westerosie Primer, my name is Liz.
00:56 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're new to this podcast, welcome.
00:59 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoy this journey of all things Westeros.
01:02 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And in this episode, I'll be talking about how to the Dragon episode titled Faceless Men.
01:08 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, everyone, it is now the sixth episode of the third season, which means that we will only have two episodes left before we have to wait probably another two years for the final season.
01:23 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: This time we have a number of different storylines happening as we have been seeing for the last couple of episodes.
01:32 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Now things happen yet in some ways things didn't really happen, but of course if you're listening to this episode, that is why you were here to listen to me talk about it.
01:47 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And I am always
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03:40 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So with that said, let me get on to a few observations I had about this week's episode.
03:47 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The episode opened with Kristen Cole.
03:52 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We basically get a follow up on what happened with Kristen in the previous episode where it's pretty clear that he knows that one way or another he's going to die.
04:08 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's not going to make it back to King's Landing, so he is all in on fighting to the very last.
04:18 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is exactly what we got in the very beginning of the episode.
04:22 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That ladies and gentlemen is the event that people familiar with a lore and also the books.
04:32 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_00]: No is called The Butcher's Ball.
04:36 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: In a lot of ways what was depict on the show is basically exactly what George wrote in fire and blood.
04:44 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty anticlimactic in many respects because it is a battle but it's not this completely cinematic, exciting battle where you got thousands of people fighting simultaneously and
05:05 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_00]: a total one-sided massacre because Kristen Cole and his men are ridiculously outnumbered.
05:14 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_00]: There's just no way any of them were going to survive.
05:17 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They were all destined to die at that point.
05:21 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason why it's called the Butcher's Ball is because it's connected to a comment that one of the participants later said about this particular event and they described it as complete butcher-e and that's how it got the name.
05:39 --> 06:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I will have to say I've heard rumors that Fabian was apparently not completely happy about the scripts this season, especially for his character, which over the course of the six episodes, I will have to acknowledge that if he was frustrated,
06:02 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_00]: privately, I can honestly see that because except for maybe two or three scenes that he got in the season, Kristen Cole really didn't get a lot happening and a lot to do in the season overall.
06:22 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_00]: On the one hand, it is a reflection of exactly what was going on with the character based off
06:33 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, as an actor, it's really not a lot of material to work with, and on a personal level, it does get a really frustrating, especially when you take into consideration that the character got way more screen time and more things to say and do in the first two seasons.
06:54 --> 07:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So it does feel a bit of a want-want type of thing when he finally dies.
07:03 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a sneaking suspicion that he was probably going to die in this season just because I knew some of the major events that happened during the dance.
07:17 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: based off of what they've depicted so far in this season, I figured that they were going to have the character die.
07:28 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so that is the end of Kristen Cole and they be in basically signed off.
07:37 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_00]: on the show.
07:38 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_00]: On a personal note, I will be very curious to see what other work he ends up getting, now that he's no longer involved with the show at this point.
07:46 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It will be interesting to see if the show actually helps give him a noticeable boost in his CV.
07:54 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Game of Thrones really helped out a number of actors, and so far we've also seen that Millie Alcock has gotten some more acting opportunities after playing Reneera in the first season, so we will see what happens with him.
08:11 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And on a side note, I did mention this in a previous episode, but he was very delightful to talk to as well.
08:18 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_00]: If you ever get a chance to meet Fabian at a comicon or any convention, then definitely take the time to say hi.
08:26 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We do get a couple of different scenes where we have all of and you, they are in this really weird position where they've been knighted, they are dragonwriters and yet because they are bastards and commoners, they still don't get treated with much respect.
08:52 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And I am not here to dish out spoilers because I don't want to do that to people who don't want to be spoiled and besides I did technically already spoiled people if you listen to season two of this podcast where I specifically discussed.
09:14 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_00]: things that happen during the dance.
09:18 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And I did cover this particular part of the Targaryen dynasty in that season.
09:24 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So I obviously know the fates of basically all the characters of note that you are watching on screen.
09:32 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's just say that when you have people
09:42 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not just saying this to characters in the show.
09:48 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying this also as a general life advice type of thing.
09:54 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: When you have people willing to do things for you, you should learn how to appreciate it when they actually do a decent job.
10:05 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And even if they make a mistake, you shouldn't treat them like crap because the tables can get turned on you at some point if you push people too far.
10:18 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, it is not just specifically about characters in the show.
10:25 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_00]: This is just general life advice.
10:27 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Some people have a higher tolerance for patients, and other people are ready to react to negative reinforcement shall we say.
10:42 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Whether or not we're going to see more of that in the show, I will leave it to you guys to wait and see.
10:49 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We get a couple of scenes with Hugh and Alf where they are trying to make the best of their situation.
10:56 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I can imagine that Alf is very frustrated with how his lifestyle has been completely changed all because he is able to bond with a dragon.
11:09 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_00]: To this day, I don't know why George decided to have this type of a person end up with a dragon, but no, right?
11:19 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He, in the show, is a lot more likable than he is in the book.
11:23 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_00]: In the book, he's just as questionable of person as all is except in a different way.
11:32 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me just put it to that way.
11:34 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say the scene between Alf and his wife is also pretty interesting difference for the TV show versus the book.
11:44 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a stark reminder that Hugh thinks that by being a dragon rider that he can do a lot more to improve the life.
11:58 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_00]: He's living not just for himself, but also for his wife because he views his poverty.
12:06 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: as the reason why their kid died, and to a very certain degree that is true that poverty causes a lot of problems because of course it does, but it seems like he may have lost perspective of what it was that his family really needed from him, and
12:31 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't completely blame his wife for reacting really negatively because she's had to deal with a lot of struggle.
12:41 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And in a lot of ways, she lost support, both from a physical, direct way.
12:50 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And also emotionally, she's lost support from her husband when she needed it and she vented out her frustration about that and he's confused and glossed about that and we will see if the show decides to let these two work things out or not.
13:11 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Amen.
13:12 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And Alice Rivers is a really unexpected odd relationship.
13:19 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's interesting that you and Mitchell described the relationship as a potential body and Clyde thing.
13:26 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And to a certain degree, I can see why he decided to describe the character's relationship that way.
13:38 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_00]: because to be honest with you in the book, it does get a little bit Bonnie and Clyde like, but yeah, that will be an interesting relationship to see developed further potentially.
13:52 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I did find the character very interesting Alice Rivers in the book because she's very mysterious,
14:02 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You read between the lines that there may be something going on with her, but you can never quite put your finger on what exactly it is about her.
14:11 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_00]: You just get the impression that she's definitely the type of person who will readily take advantage of any opportunities that comes her way.
14:22 --> 14:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And given her status in life, you can't completely blame her for that, but yeah.
14:28 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be interesting to see how this relationship continues to develop over the next few episodes.
14:35 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: we get Damon who is naturally very frustrated that the men who once served him as gold cloaks are being killed and now they've gone to the point where they have to really re-examine what they want to do with themselves and they do have genuine practical reasons why.
15:01 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_00]: they want to resign from the position because it is a very dangerous job at times.
15:09 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not easy work being law enforcement.
15:13 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And now you are being targeted for death by a bunch of people who are trying to rebel against Reneera, who are against having a queen ruling over them.
15:29 --> 15:36 [SPEAKER_00]: people who believe that someone else has the right to be on the throne and should be in charge.
15:37 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this point of view, both in real life and even within the world of ice and fire, that sort of mentality is the type of mentality that comes from people with a certain degree of privilege.
15:53 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And by privilege, I don't just mean, oh, they have a status in society or they have financial gain or even financial comfort, although there is a big degree of that.
16:09 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to lie.
16:11 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's because when you are in a situation where you have all of your basics of life covered like you have shelter, you have food, you have clothes, you have basically everything you need to live in life.
16:27 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_00]: you get into a place where you are able to start thinking about more esoteric things and you have room to think of principles and those are the type of people who go out of their way to be very political.
16:48 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not to say that you shouldn't be political or care about it.
16:54 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just that the presumption that just because you have a certain belief that you're going to get millions and millions of people.
17:07 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Following you is a fallacy, because a large percentage of people couldn't give less of a damn about who is in charge as long as all of the things in life that they need and their comforts and their wants are taken care of.
17:33 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And the moment those things get disrupted in any way.
17:38 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_00]: There is going to be hell to pay and who is going to get a lot of the blame.
17:45 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be the people in charge.
17:47 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why you end up with propaganda, where the people in charge are going to go out of their way to save their asses.
17:56 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a thing we do see a lot both in Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon, and we're starting to see the basis of Norman's strategy on how to deal with Renera, which is why to a certain degree it's working, what he's been doing with agents acting in King's Landing.
18:23 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You have a bunch of people who are apparently idealistic enough to be pro-high-tower.
18:31 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess you could say pro-green faction, and they are going out of their way to create chaos in the city, which would therefore cause Reneera to be more forceful.
18:46 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And then her forcefulness will cause the common people to gradually be against her because she's failing to do the job of being a ruler and making sure that their daily status quo is taken care of.
19:08 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_00]: and that is basically the point of that scene in the throne room where she is hearing petitions from a bunch of commoners who are filing perfectly understandable and reasonable complaints.
19:22 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure a lot of you listening to this episode would relate in some way to the petitioners because we all have had
19:32 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_00]: things happen in our lives that we want addressed by somebody in a position to do something about it.
19:41 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And it becomes a source of frustration when the people who are in said position to do something about it don't even acknowledge it much less do anything about it.
19:54 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when, at some point, it's going to get ugly.
19:58 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a strategy that isn't just something that Ormond does.
20:02 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It's something that exists in our real world, whether you want to talk about now, or you want to talk about a hundred, five hundred, two thousand years ago.
20:14 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not something new at all.
20:29 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_00]: we got another scene with Raina in the Vale.
20:36 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to lie.
20:36 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_00]: That scene was weird.
20:38 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why they even added that in there.
20:41 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It was completely unnecessary.
20:43 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_00]: The one and only rationale as to why.
20:48 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: They would even bother including Reina and Jane in this episode is because there's intended to be some sort of set up to something bigger happening really to Reina.
21:03 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_00]: The other possible reason is just to remind people that she still exists, which I understand, but at the same time, I just generally feel like that was rather pointless.
21:16 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Another interesting
21:24 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty interesting that they decided to go that route to develop a relationship between the two characters.
21:37 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_00]: They've been trying to set up a connection between the two since the very first episode and then in this episode they have the two characters end up kissing each other.
21:46 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It's intended to be a set up for
21:50 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: their relationship later on in the storyline because it's not really a spoiler earlier at this point because they literally had the two characters kissing.
22:00 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But after the war is over, the two end up in a relationship together, although it feels really weird to me, not so much the idea of them being together because of course I know they end up together.
22:18 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So that part is not the weird part.
22:20 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The weird part to me is how they really changed Alan's character a lot in the show versus the book because Let's just say that Alan has almost the complete opposite type of personality versus how he is in the book
22:44 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, it's a little ambiguous how really happy their relationship is in the book.
22:53 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I could picture it being
22:56 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: reasonably happy, but let's just say it's got its share of ups and downs, is all I'm going to say about it.
23:05 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Next story line to discuss is Helena and Allison, so of course there were consequences to their attempt to escape.
23:15 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: They, of course, got stuck in the passageways, and we see that eventually guards who realized that they were missing went to search for them, and they were able to be rescued, so if they didn't die in the tunnels.
23:28 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And actually this pisses off, Reneera, because she...
23:33 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_00]: thought she was being as accommodating as possible.
23:39 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can see both points about how no, it's not really that great a job.
23:47 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_00]: To be frank, I admit that even Sansa got a lot more freedom relatively speaking versus Allison and Helena.
23:58 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that if Allison was more honest about how Helena's mental state is getting worse, Renera might have been more accommodating at least for her sister, even if she has to be less trusting of Allison, because as I said in a different episode,
24:25 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_00]: is perpetually upon an unfortunate character through this whole part of the Targaryen dynasty.
24:36 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_00]: She's one of those characters that really is a very good, kind innocent person who never did anything to anyone and never wished harm on anybody.
24:48 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_00]: She goes through a lot, and it remains to be seen whether this will get any improvement or not.
24:55 --> 25:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Although based off of the preview for the next episode, it may not go as well for Helena, because it's very clear that Allison admitting to Reneera that Helena apparently has
25:17 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Renera is going to be extremely interested in this, and we will have to see what comes of it.
25:25 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Then another important storyline is we go back to see what's going on with Orman.
25:33 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Eventually going as we saw very briefly in the previous episode, he split off from Kristen Cole because he recognizes that
25:44 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Quest is utterly hopeless, and Goaine has enough motivation to survive and a lot of practicality to him to not be a part of this path.
25:59 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_00]: He reports in to his cousin Ormond, and he briefly checks in on Deiron.
26:05 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Deiron really wished that he had more of a buffer to
26:13 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_00]: extreme behavior, and I can see why Gwain isn't able to do much, and I can't entirely blame him because even the actor Freddy Fox describes Gwain's relationship with his cousin as
26:37 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And even though Gwain isn't really scared of Warmen in the conventional sense, now that they're both adults, he is the type of person who's like, you know what?
26:50 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_00]: This guy is going to do what he thinks is the right path.
26:57 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_00]: and going after witnessing all the craziness that has gone on for the past few years feels like you know what this family is going to go down in flames and I may be one of the few members left of this family who
27:17 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_00]: If I play my cards right, may actually survive this potentially so I need to get myself out of here before it gets worse and the house of cards start falling down around me and I get the impression that a part of him does genuinely feel really bad that day run is in the situation he's in.
27:42 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But as the character basically says that, as long as Warman is still in charge, day-run will always remain his puppet to play with, because Warman can never actually sit on the throne himself, which clearly this character wants to do so.
28:02 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And Orman is playing a lot of games, both with Tumbleton and also with Reneera in the capital.
28:10 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he's pretty confident of how Reneera will behave because of the fact that she's woman.
28:18 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And also she is probably going to want to play the moral high round and not want to kill a lot of people, unless necessary.
28:30 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_00]: partially he is right where in terms of general public opinion, she shouldn't and she doesn't want to just kill a whole bunch of people who are clearly not her enemy, especially people who live in a town that were swearing loyalty to her.
28:49 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: But on the other hand, he's also being a total asshole.
28:54 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's be honest.
28:55 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a misogynistic asshole, assuming that because she's a woman she is going to be soft-hearted and not want to do that.
29:06 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it's because he has only spent time around day-run and day-run is the only Targaryen he's ever spent time with.
29:15 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't seem to really get a very good read on Targaryens in general.
29:25 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You do have certain Targaryens who are like day-run and who are
29:36 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_00]: passive relatively speaking, and especially for Vassaris, he is not the type who wants to rock the boat.
29:43 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_00]: But, warm and clearly has not met enough Targaryens because there are plenty of Targaryens, even within this show.
29:52 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can confirm that other Targaryens in the Dynasty are also like this that there are a lot of hot heads and people who are not above getting rid of people killing a lot of people for Angering them for getting in their way and for just being a problem and getting rid of them when we are another is the way to resolve that
30:18 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_00]: problem.
30:19 --> 30:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So we will see whether or not Ormond has pushed her buttons far enough that she's going to be like, you know what?
30:29 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Screw it all.
30:30 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to burn you out one way or another.
30:35 --> 30:38 [SPEAKER_00]: she's bordering on that point.
30:39 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also an interesting choice to end the episode with Coralis getting kidnapped, which, by the way, is definitely not a thing that ever happened in the book.
30:49 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I will be curious to see what happens with that.
30:53 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Presumably that is going to get addressed in the next episode, but yeah, just my journal of thoughts and opinions about this week's episode.
31:02 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said earlier, if you guys agree, disagree, have your own thoughts on the matter.
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31:48 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that is all for this week's episode, tune in next time where I will do another reaction and general thoughts on Episode 7 of this season of House of the Dragon.
32:02 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So Valar, more Googleis.
32:41 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of this episode?
32:44 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Check out thewesterocprimer.com and let me know what you think of this episode.
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